OV 3.3.1 experiences in Tiger and Leopard with Logic 7

[mitkroy]

Stefan,

I've just installed a Leopard system on an external drive and I can report that in Logic 7 the text entering problem is solved. However the insert problem, where there is no sound on an insert remains.

In Tiger the 3.3.1 update appears to be worse because not only is the text entering and insert problem still there, but trying to enter text to the sliders actually causes the spinning wheel ad infinitum, and a "logic Not Responding' message in Force Quit. This has happened several times, so I've reinstalled 3.3.0 on the Tiger system.

No problems in Logic 8 on both systems.

[neuronaut]

Our QA people don't see these problems I'm afraid, so there is nothing I can do about it... Did you try if the problems persist if you invoke the UI in a separate window (hold down the control key when opening the plug in window)? Anything in the logs (Utilities->Console) when the hang/crash occurs?

Anyway, I'll try setting up a 10.4 boot disk in my office to see if I can reproduce the problems on Tiger myself.

Not sure if this is worth investing too much time into, as 10.4 compatibility will go away with the soon-to-come 10.6/64bit conversion anyway... There is no way to run 64bit apps/plug-ins in Tiger, and Carbon isn't supported on 64bit either.

Thanks
+Stephan

[mitkroy]

I just remembered there is 'control' view for plug-in settings, and in that mode I am able to change the coarse settings to whatever i want. In fact it allows for finer settings like 5.1, 5.2, 5.3, which don't show up in the Editor view, but which still affect the sound. So I have a workaround for this.

That just leaves the silent insert situation.

Incidentally, I have a Tiger system on an iBook G4 as well, and the insert Orange Vocoder is also silent on that. (That's with version 3.3.0). And as I mentioned earlier, the insert is also silent with the Logic 7/Leopard disc I set up..

[neuronaut]

The only explanation that I have for this is that the sidechain is not connected. Older versions of Logic could cause OV to remain silent when the side chain wasn't connected (even if it was just connected to a silent track this would actually make a difference). You will see the analyzer showing a signal but no sound will come out of it until you connect something to the side chain...

PS: I tried installing 10.4 today but ran into all kinds of problems (Logic 7 would not load ANY plug ins, not even the Apple ones that are shipping with 10.4). Not sure what is going on here but I'll keep at it...

+Stephan

[mitkroy]

That's it, Stephan! All I have to do is put something valid in the side chain menu and the insert works.

Does that info help you to create an update that fixes this?

However, if you do and you keep the 'entering text fix' that you put into 3.3.1, I may be reluctant to use it since in 3.3.1 I get a freeze in Logic if I try to enter text by double clicking on a number (I mentioned this earlier). For that reason I'm using 3.3.0 and changing to Logic's 'Editor' view if I want to enter values like 3,5 etc

(Because I'm using 3.3.0, I keep getting an 'update available - ie 3.3.1 etc..' splash screen when I first start Logic. Not a big deal, but is there a way to disable this?)

BTW, just did some comparisons with EVOC and OV. EVOC has it's own sound but will no way create the 'beauty' that I hear in OV.

[neuronaut]

That's it, Stephan! All I have to do is put something valid in the side chain menu and the insert works.
Does that info help you to create an update that fixes this?

The problem is that there is no way that a plug in can detect that the side chain is not connected. Some hosts (like Digital Performer 6 and some older versions of Logic as well) report a connection even if there isn't one, so there might not be a way to fix this without using a hack (like, detecting silence). I'm not sure if we want to do that, but I'll run some tests to see if this could potentially have adverse effects, and if not, will probably integrate it into the product.

However, if you do and you keep the 'entering text fix' that you put into 3.3.1, I may be reluctant to use it since in 3.3.1 I get a freeze in Logic if I try to enter text by double clicking on a number (I mentioned this earlier). For that reason I'm using 3.3.0 and changing to Logic's 'Editor' view if I want to enter values like 3,5 etc

I understand. The problem is that we don't get any freezes in 10.5 and I wasn't successful in installing 10.4.11 with Logic 7 yet. I'll have another go at it today, so keep your fingers crossed. I am also waiting for our QA people to get back to me with a report regarding this freeze, maybe that info will help me track this down as well.

(Because I'm using 3.3.0, I keep getting an 'update available - ie 3.3.1 etc..' splash screen when I first start Logic. Not a big deal, but is there a way to disable this?)

Yes, absolutely. Just launch the Prosoniq Plug-in Helper app (in Applications/Prosoniq Plug-In Support) and disable update checking for OV. That should take care of it.

BTW, just did some comparisons with EVOC and OV. EVOC has it's own sound but will no way create the 'beauty' that I hear in OV.

Thanks, I appreciate the compliment! We put our main efforts on intelligibility, which is why some say that OV sounds "digital". However, we've run some side-by side tests with a big EMS system in 1998 and were pretty happy with the results of our emulation. Ludwig Rehberg himself (founder of EMS and maker of these wonderful things) gave us his blessings, he was personally there at the Prosoniq office during the test (those of you who visit the Musikmesse in Frankfurt on a regular basis may recall him being our guest at the Messe booth back then, to show off his vocoders and to allow us to present the best of both the analog and digital world).

Yes, I believe this was the show where we had the baskets with free oranges...

Later,
+Stephan

[neuronaut]

Quick heads-up: I found the "silence on insert" problem to be a long standing bug which will finally be fixed in 3.3.2. This affects Logic 7 on 10.4.11 and Digital Performer 6 on Leopard where it would cause some render flags to get messed up causing the output to be silent unless you had something routed to the side chain input of the plug in.

Also, I was able to reproduce the hang (SBBOD) in Logic 7 on 10.4.11 but I don't have an idea what's causing it yet. Will investigate further.

Later
+Stephan

[mitkroy]

Sounds positive!

Perhaps a free (seedless) tangerine with 3.3.2..?

[neuronaut]

I'll see what I can do

+Stephan

[neuronaut]

We'll be releasing version 3.3.2 shortly (this week). Even though the text field input bug in 10.4.11/Logic 7/PPC has not been fixed in this version there is a workaround (btw. this should work with 3.3.1 and 3.3.0 as well). In a Terminal window (/Applications/Utilities) type the following line:

Code: Select all

defaults write com.prosoniq.audiounit.OrangeVocoder-10AE "userDisplayCocoaUiInSeparateWindow" -int 1

This will cause Logic to display the OrangeVocoder UI in a separate window which is safe wrt. text input.

You can revert this to the default behaviour by issuing the command

Code: Select all

defaults write com.prosoniq.audiounit.OrangeVocoder-10AE "userDisplayCocoaUiInSeparateWindow" -int 0

(ie. 0 instead of 1).

While we get the crash here as well we are unable debug it, as both the version of Xcode that we're using and the SDK that we're building against don't run and can't be installed on a Tiger system so there is no way for us to find out what is wrong without reverting our current code base to 10.4.

Given the fact that there is a workaround, the age of the 10.4.11 system and fact that the bug is specific to Carbon code in Logic 7 on PPC we decided to discontinue further investigations in this matter.

Please let me know if the above workaround solves the problem for you.

Thanks
+Stephan

[neuronaut]

FYI, 3.3.2 is out now.

Cheers
+Stephan